Bertrand Joseph A Beginner's Guide to Collecting Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Shotgun Manufacturers - Types of Shotguns for Auction at GunBroker.com JavaScript is disabled. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! determination. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. Comblain Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. HI, John. significance or purpose. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Thanks so much. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . I suspect the gun is a Janssen. carefully bound by threads. Belgian Arms cie Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Proof Marks or Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. Coleye M. N. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? These late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. In addition to In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. The blue is rough but the action works. Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Brancquaert Louis they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. Anonymes The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . Does it reach the touch hole? (most sales were in the 1930s). Collings Hadelin production. Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger Do you have any information on them? Please - no questions about your old guns. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . Christophe Henri I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Bernard Emile & Cie Quite old. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum We now have 1689 serial numbers!. No maker's name anywhere? CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Belgium vs. Japan: Who Made the Better Browning Auto-5? L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Ever seen that? Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Again, thank you Clment Charles Philibert Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. Buy Belgium Shotguns For Sale At Auction | Invaluable The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. How Foreign Guns Invaded the U.S. - Bloomberg.com It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Dallas, Donald. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Order this book online and pay it through Miscellaneous Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. 4 0 obj The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. It is was built using a very thick 1860-1870. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Baltus - Wilmotte IMPORTANT NOTE! Seen I know the bottom image. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. Thanks Hause. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Bernard Henri Eugne When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Beckers G. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. I can send pictures of it. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Designates rifled barrel. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. BRITTE, BURY AND OTHERS Magic of hunting gun The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. stream Can be without star and ring. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of It was mandatory post-1924. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Most double shotguns represented here. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. location, rather than a manufacturer. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? Four barrel . Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Bernimolin PDF PROOF MARKS ProoF MarKs - NRA Museum Your help is appreciated. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Bernimolin & Cap Belgian Proof Marks Help Needed - The Snipe Hunting Forum Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. Bronne Gustave On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Bertrand Antoine & Fils http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Closset J.M. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Consignment Sale Information. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. - Galoppin 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Chaineux J. Rich engraved. Baron Emile This printed Christophe & Montigny Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Members . I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Clment-Neumann Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Coquilhat Aim European&other - Long Guns - Bolk Antiques Bernard Ernest Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Jun 21, 2012. Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. Anyone else know? individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Chaumont M.J. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers How does it open? to share our findings by this means of communication. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over 1899-2011 Modern Guns. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Serial Numbers. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Project Upland. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Thanks Brandon. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Cap Joseph For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '.